Interview with Kyle White

About Kyle

Kyle White is a third-year PhD student at MIT studying biophysics and phase separation. Originally from Madison, Wisconsin, Kyle grew up in a non-academic household and initially planned to pursue mathematics, something he always excelled at in school.

His path shifted during his senior year of high school when an introduction to biotechnology class revealed the fascinating world inside the cell. This moment sparked a passion that would change his trajectory from mathematics to biology.

Kyle completed his undergraduate studies at the University of Minnesota, where he joined Melissa Gardner's lab and worked on microtubule cytoskeleton dynamics using in vitro reconstitution systems. During his sophomore year, he began an internship at a small biotechnology company, where he found a mentor who would shape his next four years, a veteran researcher whose passion for science proved infectious and helped solidify Kyle's decision to pursue graduate school.

After graduating in May 2020 during the pandemic, Kyle took two gap years before starting his PhD at MIT. His current research focuses on biomolecular phase separation: the phenomenon where biological molecules spontaneously separate like oil and water, forming distinct droplets within cells. This interdisciplinary work combines his love of mathematics, physics, and biology.

Through his experience TAing at MIT, Kyle discovered a passion for teaching and mentorship, which has him reconsidering a purely industry-focused career path. He now envisions a future that balances research with the opportunity to mentor the next generation of scientists.

My favorite quote from the interview:

Do what you're passionate for and good things will come.

Watch the video or continue reading to learn more about Kyle's story.

Transcript

Chelsy Do: If you're ready, we can begin the interview. So, I want to begin just talking about you, learning more about you and your background. Can you tell me a little bit more about where you grew up and what your early life was like?

Kyle White: Yeah, of course. So I grew up in Madison, Wisconsin. Midwest, kind of rural area. Growing up, my big thing was always I was a math guy. I was really good at mathematics. I could do a lot of mental math in my head. And honestly, up until my senior year of high school, I pretty much was convinced I was going to do something with math just because that's what I was good at, what I enjoyed.

And it wasn't until just a class that I took. introduction to biotechnology or something like that, that basically told me what a protein is and what DNA is for the first time. I was like, "Wow, this is really cool."

I don't think it was until then that I was actually interested in biology. So it still seems a fairly recent shift in focus, but yeah. No, I'm happy. I'm happy with my decision.

Kyle's Educational Background

Chelsy Do: So you kind of just talked about that experience that sparked your interest in biology. Maybe you could talk about how your family or your background maybe shaped your journey into doing research, whether they supported you or if it was like a challenge?

Kyle White: No, so growing up nobody in my family had been involved in academia. So to me, I didn't even know how people ended up as a professor. It seemed like they're just like a black box, I guess. I feel like my family gave me a decent environment to excel but never pushed me in a certain direction. So, I feel like me personally, I kind of just went where my interests lie and I was like, I enjoy it. I'm not going to put that much thought into it. That's how I chose my original major in college.

I was just really enveloped in biochemistry and I was like, this is the coolest thing in the world. So, that's all the thought I put into it before I just declared my major. And I don't think there's anything wrong with just doing what you enjoy and not overanalyzing it. That's kind of what I did.

Chelsy Do: You did a lot of research in your undergrad and some TAing experience. Could you kind of talk more about that educational journey? Maybe start from high school if you did anything there and then in your undergraduate years.

Kyle White: Yeah. I think for me at least, I didn't really get into academia until my undergraduate years. And I guess my advice would be to start early. Don't be afraid to email professors. I know they can be pretty intimidating, but honestly, they're just people. But getting into research and everything. I feel like for me, I basically just learned that other people, the experts in biology and in that world, like they were doing research. And for me it was just like I wanted to check it out. I wasn't settled on anything at that point.

And when I tried it out for the first time, I pretty much fell in love and I was like, this is what I want to do. And I feel by my sophomore year in undergrad, I was already pretty settled on the fact that I want to continue doing research and this is where I want my career to go. So, yeah. My advice is to take advantage of any opportunities, any research opportunities that they give you at school. You don't know what you're going to fall in love with and just try to experience as much as you can. Undergrad's like an exciting time.

Chelsy Do: Awesome. Maybe you could detail more about your work that you did in the lab that you were at in undergrad?

Kyle White: Yeah, for sure. So I emailed a few professors my first semester in undergrad and I'd heard back from one and I joined that lab. I initially started just volunteering with any free time I had. And this was at a lab at University of Minnesota. So I guess I grew up in Wisconsin, I went to college in Minnesota. But yeah, I ended up in Melissa Gardner's lab and they do a lot of work with the microtubule cytoskeleton.

I was initially by chance just put on a project that was completely an in vitro project. So basically we would purify the subunits of microtubules and we could essentially just reconstitute microtubule dynamics in vitro, so completely outside of the cell. And it was a really cool system because essentially we're simulating a cellular process, but we can do it just by playing with concentrations of the proteins. And then I thought it was really, really interesting because of how much information you could get out of such a simplistic system. And how you could essentially just zero in on exactly what you wanted to study without all the other complications that arise from doing cell work. No confounding variables, fairly easy to interpret results. And honestly, for me, it was just like a really cool system.

And I got myself familiarized with it and I just enjoyed it. It was usually the part of the day that I looked forward to, my time in lab.

Kyle's PhD Journey

Chelsy Do: Nice. Maybe we can talk more about now—you're at MIT doing your PhD. Is that correct?

Kyle White: Yeah.

Chelsy Do: So, what motivated you to pursue a PhD specifically? What drew you to research over other careers, like medicine for example?

Kyle White: Yeah, that's a good question. I feel like for me it probably goes back to my old advisor at my internship. So the summer after my sophomore year of undergrad, I started interning at this small little biotechnology company and the owner/leader. I guess he kind of functioned as a PI. Him and I got along really well and basically he turned into my mentor for the next two years and then my two gap years after that.

So, I got to work really closely with this veteran of research and to me, that was first of all very inspiring. I get to see this guy who's been doing this for 50 years and he's the most passionate person I've ever seen, who can get excited over an Excel spreadsheet for three hours. And honestly for me, seeing how much he enjoyed it and the fact that as I got better at it, I enjoyed it more and more, I was like, okay, I feel like graduate school is probably the best career choice here. Especially since I graduated in May of 2020 when everything was shut down and there weren't many people looking for jobs.

I ended up just taking two gap years because I didn't want to start graduate school in the middle of a pandemic. And I think that was a good choice. But yeah, I think for me it was like the mentorship and getting to work very closely with somebody who's very passionate for it—that kind of rubs off on you. And I don't know, I feel that's what pushed me to make this choice. I guess I never really went into a premed route. So I was never actively exploring it, but I think I got lucky and found something I really enjoyed very early and I just kept following it.

Chelsy Do: Gotcha. You were talking about your passion for mathematics growing up and that's what you always thought that you were going to do. And so now at MIT you said that your work. I guess you mentioned biophysics. Could you tell me more about that in detail and what your work in your PhD looks like?

Kyle White: Yeah. No. So I guess this kind of boils down to biology being very interdisciplinary. If you want to understand a biological system, you want to understand it from a chemical background, physical background. You want to fully understand the question. And for me, I feel like the reason I enjoy biology so much is because it's like that, where it's combining all of these different perspectives and approaches to trying to figure out whatever biological system you're interested in.

So for my current project, I'm really interested in phase separation. And you know how oil and water, they will spontaneously just de-mix? Turns out a lot of biomolecules will do the exact same kind of thing where they like to interact with themselves more than they do something else. So you'll end up with phase separated droplets and things will spontaneously demix. And already you can see I'm kind of talking about a biological system from a more physics perspective. A lot of the time you think about phase transitions and that kind of thing from a physical perspective.

So I think for me, growing up being interested in math and then also kind of getting a little into physics and chemistry in undergrad, I feel like biology and biochemistry is the perfect way to kind of synthesize all those different approaches. And you don't get tunnel vision constantly thinking about a mathematical problem. You're trying to understand things from different perspectives all day. And I think that's really why I'm confident I chose the right field and I'm happy with my last minute choice to switch from math to biology. But yeah, I think it's just cool how interdisciplinary the field is.

Yeah. I'm actually towards the end of my third year right now. So, I'm about halfway through. It's about a six-year program.

Chelsy Do: Could you tell me more about how that has been for you? Kind of this journey. You're halfway through, how do you feel?

Kyle White: I feel like coming to MIT, it was definitely a steep learning curve because I didn't grow up near any Ivy League schools. I didn't have parents that were involved in academia. So coming here, I would say that first year was incredibly hard for me just because I'm in a wholly new environment, new people, lots of expectations. I think for me it was a steep learning curve and I feel like I took it too seriously. I should have just relaxed and made friends and not worried so much.

But I guess for my program it's kind of unique in that we don't get into a lab right away. We take a lot of classes. Typically you either start rotating or you join a lab right away, but in my program you don't end up in a lab until about June of your first year. So I think my two-year lab anniversary was a few days ago. But yeah, I feel like for me, once I got done with some of the more chore aspects and I was able to actually start on my own project, it became just so much more enjoyable I'd say.

Chelsy Do: A PhD can lead to a wide range of careers. You were talking about thinking about—or you didn't grow up with a background with anyone in academia. And now that you are in your third year of your PhD, how do you envision your ideal work to look like in the future? Are you planning to go into academia, maybe into industry?

Kyle White: Yeah. No, that's a really, really hard question because I don't know. I'm not totally sure yet. For a long time I was leaning towards industry because I mean one, it's easier to find. You don't have to deal with some of the annoying tenure things that you have to run into in academia. So I was initially headed towards industry and that internship I mentioned earlier, that was also more of an industrial kind of job. So, I was kind of comfortable and thinking I was going to head that way until I TAed here.

And I absolutely love TAing. Being able to mentor people one-on-one and teach a class. It's very professionally satisfying, I'd say. I feel very accomplished when teaching. And that kind of pushed me back towards academia because I think it'd be really cool to be able to do research for 75% of my time and then 25% of the time teaching or mentoring because that's so important in science. And I feel like that's something that goes overlooked: how much there's no science if you can't communicate your ideas properly. You can understand a lot of really cool facts, but if you can't share that with the scientific community, we're never going to be able to build off it and that kind of thing. And honestly, it's that interest in mentorship that I think has been pushing me back towards academia.

But the issue is I once again find myself I think at 50/50 between wanting to pursue a more industrial or academic research job. There are other options that people also don't usually consider. They usually think it's one or the other. People can end up as an editor at a publishing company like Cell or Nature. I know a few people that went into that kind of career. And really there's also science writing or you can go into patent law. There's several people that will go to law school after grad school and get into patent law, which I don't think that's going to happen for me. But there's a set of different careers that you kind of don't normally think about that you can also follow through with getting a PhD.

Chelsy Do: Thank you for including that. I didn't know! I couldn't imagine doing law school after a graduate PhD program.

Kyle White: No, after four years of undergrad and six years of a PhD, I can't imagine wanting more school. Supposedly they get paid very well. So, I will say that.

Advice for Aspiring Scientists

Chelsy Do: All right. We can move on to concluding advice that you have for future aspiring STEM students or people wanting to go into research. Maybe we can start with looking back, do you have anything that you wish you'd known earlier that might have made your journey smoother?

Kyle White: No, I think I do wish I had at least a little bit of understanding of academia and that whole world growing up. And I don't know, I guess my advice would be to try to get involved in any college related events: go and visit a college. Reach out to people who you think you want to follow a similar career to. If you're interested in grad school, honestly, just email us. Half the time I'm at my desk waiting for an incubation to finish up. We get bored.

But no, I honestly, my advice would be to involve yourself early. Don't wait until it's the last minute and it's a requirement to graduate to get into a lab or do anything like that. Figure that stuff out as early as you can. And chances are you're going to go through several things that you don't like, but you're not going to know if you're passionate for something if you don't try it. I'd say do it as early as you can. That's my advice.

Chelsy Do: All right. Do you have any advice for maybe. Let's start with high school students thinking about pursuing just applying to colleges and they're not sure where they want to go? What do you think that they should consider just applying to college in general?

Kyle White: I would say again starting early, but I know a lot of schools will have outreach programs like panels or programs that hook you up with people in the program where you can ask questions one-on-one. Because I feel like when you're sitting there in high school and there's these big prestigious universities above you, it's a little intimidating, you don't want to reach out. And I feel like the trickiest thing is just to get your foot in the door, get into that world. And the easiest thing to do is just to try to find some of the outreach programs. There's application assistance programs. I know MIT has several. I'm involved in one.

But honestly I think the biggest thing is not being afraid of getting judged or being new to academia. Everybody was new to academia at some point. And I think just getting your foot in the door and just trying to do things where you can join in that world. It's important in high school.

And then also I feel with STEM in particular, I always found it harder to stay motivated, especially when I got a test score that wasn't up to my standard or whatever. Sometimes that's very demotivating. It makes you want to give up, but you have to realize the whole point of science is being wrong most of the time and just staying motivated and not being too harsh on yourself. I think those are two things I wish I would have been more proactive with in my past. But I'd say just do what you're passionate for and good things will come.

Chelsy Do: And last question. For people considering going into graduate school, doing a PhD program in research, what's maybe an underground tip or just something they should know that maybe is less advice that they've heard before?

And it doesn't have to be serious. It could just be silly as well. But I wonder if you have anything like that.

Kyle White: I feel for me at least, having loved TAing so much and I've got this conference on my mind that I was at all week, the importance of talking about your work and communicating. Effectively, science is a very collaborative community and I feel like taking advantage of any opportunity—a presentation or just during class when they pair you up in a group—really focus on effectively communicating your ideas.

I feel like that's something that I never really focused on in undergraduate: presenting. And I know it's a trivial thing where it's like I can get in front of the class and give a book report. I feel like it's something you can always get better at and as you get better at it, it'll directly help you in just a variety of aspects. For example, grad school interviews, when you get put on the spot to talk about your research or whatever for the first time, it's pretty scary. And just practicing that and repping that, I think that's actually one of the most underrated things that you can do to really help you as a scientist and help you as a communicator and collaborator. Yeah, I think that's my underground piece of knowledge or underrated at least, I'd say.

Chelsy Do: Okay, awesome. Thank you for your time, your insight has been invaluable and thank you so much for taking the time to meet with me. Thank you.

Kyle White: Yeah. No, of course. I think it's really cool that you do something like this. I wish I had a blog like this to look at when I was 17. So, yeah.

Chelsy Do: Thank you so much for your time. Have a great day. Bye.

Kyle White: You too. It was nice to meet you. Bye.